kaapo: Should be still some moments before the play continues
vugraphzzv: about 10 minutes
kaapo: This is the Finnish Pairs Championship Final. 105 boards to be played during the weekend
kaapo: 3 boards a round, 35 rounds
kaapo: With the website at http://bridgefinland.com/sm/pari09/
mmmakela: and click "tulokset"
kaapo: Unfortunately we have issues with the webcam so no live pictures from the table today
mmmakela: not so unfortunate if Kauko there all the time lol(JOKE)
kaapo: You have a point there ;)
kaapo: Koistinen - Nyberg have the lead after 7 rounds with 70,7%, Elsinens the second with 65,4%
mmmakela: I knew I get priv chats(at least Eija wasn't one)
mmmakela: 8-11 unbal 4c
kaapo: Some Magic Diamond notes here: http://www.patana.biz/sm08/cc/4.pdf
kaapo: That's the system played by Koistinen - Nyberg, arguably our strongest pair
mmmakela: ns have a nice heart save, magic gave no chance
kaapo: NS are Bo-Erik Enell - Torvald Björkqvist from the host club, Vasa BK
kaapo: Perhaps Koistinen could just blast 4!S here too, in order not to make defense easier
mmmakela: lucky 12 in spades here or can u get 12?
kaapo: I believe 3!S shows max with long clubs
kaapo: Or does he have some slam aspirations?
mmmakela: W is as max as 1 could get after 4+S supp
kaapo: Sure, he's super max being limited to 11 HCPs
kaapo: Devalued the singleton king
mmmakela: Was Kauko really worth his efforts
mmmakela: facing max 11
kaapo: That's why I suggested bidding a direct 4!S
mmmakela: cl time
mmmakela: 4h 4 straight losers here
kaapo: 4!C South-African transfer to 4!H
mmmakela: now misssys
kaapo: And as a response to a kibitzers question, no we don't play 1NT - 4!C as ace asking in Finland :)
mmmakela: might get some votes playing undbld
mmmakela: guess Kauko missbid???
kaapo: Unheard of ;)
mmmakela: kauko=koistinen
mmmakela: brb cig br
kaapo: Round 8 finished
kaapo: Short break and some new opponents for Koistinen - Nyberg
kaapo: I guess we should have Matti Leino - Mikko Nieminen next, if Kauko and Clas continue here
mmmakela: brigeguys.com/conventions
kaapo: So Koistinen - Nyberg continue as EW and North is Mikko Nieminen, South Matti Leino
mmmakela: 12-16 2+ cards
kaapo: 1!D according to Einari Club, a Blue Club style system with strong club, control responses, and 4-card majors
mmmakela: 3D? shd bid 3 nt imo
Walddk6: Good afternoon to Gerben Dirksen
Gerben42: hyvää :)
kaapo: ...päivää :)
mmmakela: hi G!
Gerben42: my finnish is not so good but maybe I can help anyway
kaapo: Hallo Gerben, we get some Magic Diamond experience from Germany/Netherlands
kaapo: !HJ in right position so 9 tricks
mmmakela: now kauko shd cash out
mmmakela: after some thought he will
kaapo: Another 3NT I suppose, this time for EW
kaapo: And we now have results after roud 8 at http://bridgefinland.com/sm/pari09/results.php
Gerben42: west will invite and who ever turns that down
kaapo: Not Kauko
kaapo: I think West did not promise a major in this bidding
kaapo: He would make an invite without a 4-card major this way too
Walddk6: http://hem.bredband.net/btkons/carrot/Magic_3_3_01.htm
Gerben42: will probably duck the !H once and drive out hopefully the right Ace first
kaapo: Roland has some more comprehensive notes on Magic Diamond, tack!
Gerben42: well ducked by South who can see his entries won't be enough
Gerben42: psychology now in play, on a !H return declarer knows he is down with !DA in south
mmmakela: must play small
Gerben42: so he will assume it to be in North and guess !D, so dont lead !H back
mmmakela: well done
kaapo: Doesn't not playing hearts good tell pretty much the same?
mmmakela: 12-16 4c
kaapo: Apparently NS play negative free bids, so North has to double to force; 2!H would be NF
mmmakela: 2!C is semibluff in poker terms
Gerben42: well you have 7 of them...
kaapo: Nyberg made an effort to raise a !D trick but no luck this time
mmmakela: so 3!C seems more appropriate?
kaapo: Anyhow, this round has ended
kaapo: So we'll have to wait a short time for other tables to finish and for the players to move on
kaapo: Next round likely with Kauko - Clas vs Lasse Utter - Ari Pöppönen 
mmmakela: kibs can suggest some trivia questions now
kaapo: Or costumes for the halloween party
mmmakela: as how long is a standard toilet paper roll when opened?
kaapo: Usually too short
kaapo: At least when the need is the greatest
mmmakela: my ultimate real life answer(from a female seriously) was 2 kilometers
kaapo: On the other hand, it's usually too long, when you drop it on the floor
mmmakela: ok brb cig break
kaapo: Wear something warm, Markku
kaapo: We are in Vaasa, a city in Western-Finland
kaapo: Vaasa has about 60,000 inhabitants, with about one fourth of them Swedish-speaking
kaapo: In Swedish, the name is Vasa
Gerben42: like the ship
kaapo: The city was named after a Swedish king Vasa
kaapo: So Koistinen-Nyberg (NS) vs Lasse Utter (West) - Ari Pöppönen (East) it is
mmmakela: back with a bc battle
mmmakela: bs*
kaapo: Lasse Utter is the highest ranked player in Finland, and also the one with the most masterpoints. close to 2200
kaapo: Kauko Koistinen is the second, with about 50 MPs less
kaapo: EW play 5-card majors, NS still play Magic Diamond
mmmakela: some could argue thx to his attendance percentage
Gerben42: solid auction
mmmakela: y
Gerben42: reasonable lead, after all partner has something
kaapo: Lasse does travel all around Finland, for every bridge competiton imagibable, small or big
mmmakela: yes he opened the bidding
Gerben42: must get around much then :)
mmmakela: claes knows the high cards now
mmmakela: after the tank that is
kaapo: Opening light in 3rd hand does have the drawback that it makes it easier for the declarer to place the cards, if the declarer happens to be either of the opposing pair
kaapo: Perhaps Pöppönen should pass, as opening 1!C doesn't seem to accomplish much
mmmakela: opening light in 3rd very essential in pairs if good lead directional bid(not here)
mmmakela: W flagging his HQ!
kaapo: We have results after roud 9 now: http://bridgefinland.com/sm/pari09/results.php
mmmakela: 4h ew
kaapo: And we have new leaders!
mmmakela: hard to bid
mmmakela: now might
Gerben42: wow
Gerben42: got there probably due to confusion - East not being sure if Leb applies here
mmmakela: kylmän myllyn uutisia Kaukolle
kaapo: You're probably right, Gerben
kaapo: Although West does have a very good hand for his partner
Gerben42: yes but East didnt have invite hand
mmmakela: not all play leb in this seq, 3 !H was stretched all right
kaapo: I have a hunch Lasse might raise unless East passes 2!S
Gerben42: if I'm bidding I would go Dbl ... can play in many suits
kaapo: No matter what was East tried to show his hearts
mmmakela: and succesfully did
Gerben42: 2!S = !
mmmakela: pairs frustration
Gerben42: well it got them to 3!S 
kaapo: 2NT was likely both minors
mmmakela: this good in pairs opps having 3 !C
kaapo: Change of rouds coming up again
kaapo: *rouds
kaapo: +n
kaapo: And change of players, too
kaapo: Elsinen-Elsinen vs Linden-Arle perhaps
mmmakela: even making
kaapo: or Kauppila-Tero
mmmakela: NS must have special understanding about 2 !S call S not bidding 3 !S 2nd round
mmmakela: I would with nonfamiliar partner
kaapo: Next round we'll see a bidding system you've never encountered before
Gerben42: really?
mmmakela: sikapata?
kaapo: I'm quite certain
Gerben42: tell me more about it
kaapo: Well the pair from Oulu (Tero-Kauppila) have a nice system where they require 5 cards for a minor suit opening
kaapo: And open the better major without
kaapo: So we may see some rare 3 card major suit openings
mmmakela: so a reverse to Nilsland_Fallenius "minimajor" sys
kaapo: Most of the time it doesn't change much, like this board
mmmakela: where they open with longer major even if 1-2
kaapo: But it's quite an odd approach :)
kaapo: Elsinen-Elsinen play natural
Gerben42: somehow I think this system is not really helpful for the users
kaapo: I agree, Gerben :)
kaapo: Maybe that's the reason you haven't seen it played anywhere else
mmmakela: never judge a book by a cover...
kaapo: Shouldn't be too difficult to cash out
kaapo: EW play 10-12 leads
kaapo: So with KJT the lead is 10
mmmakela: some will go wrong here in the field
kaapo: 1!H opening here?
kaapo: As East?
mmmakela: dangerous deal
Gerben42: didnt get the chance afte the solid 3!C opener
kaapo: After round 10 we have a tie: http://bridgefinland.com/sm/pari09/results.php
Gerben42: i would have Xed I think
kaapo: Both Koistinen-Nyberg and Elsinens at 647 match points, 63,4 %
mmmakela: U all pass in pairs as south?
kaapo: He'd X with 3 spades, but with 5 he can't?
Gerben42: this board might still be good for EW because no X
Gerben42: I dont understand !C9
Gerben42: why not A then Q
mmmakela: I would turn in my lotto slip and double FAST
mmmakela: if they somehow make 5 hearts and run to it so what
Gerben42: !S98 are great cards :)
Gerben42: I want to meet the pair that runs after 3!S 4!S
mmmakela: me too
mmmakela: somehow was an understatement
mmmakela: by miracle better
mmmakela: btw we have a record Lotto win waiting for it's taker this weekend in Finland(ab 7 mil euros)
Gerben42: 200 still pretty good
Gerben42: after all raising wasnt obvious
Gerben42: I support the lottery - it's the only tax people pay voluntarily
Gerben42: i'd be surprised if any good bridge players enter that, they should know the odds :)
mmmakela: brb cig br once again
mmmakela: it's not about the odds: with min input can win a lot
Gerben42: yes here too. In Germany win chances are 1 to 140 million and people still try it
mmmakela: but those who invest more than minimum stake....
Gerben42: and the funny thing is most winners end up with a messed-up life...
kaapo: Even though they'd all "continue to work and live a normal life"
Gerben42: I get a good comment here - 2 Euros for the ticket is nothing but 7M changes your life. but if you buy one every week that's 2500 Euro over 25 years, and you'd have gotten some ...
Gerben42: nice holiday for that
kaapo: Elsinen-Elsinen stay as EW
mmmakela: yes the life durance expectancy would be diminshed greatly at least in my case if i won the grand price...
kaapo: Holger Kuni (North) and Kaj Finne (South) are from the host club, Vasa BK
kaapo: Would it be evil now to wish that you'd win in the lottery, Markku? :) (just kidding)
Gerben42: looks like NS play an art. Dbl of 1NT
kaapo: I think EW play 1NT as 14-16
mmmakela: best lead
mmmakela: not very many tricks for decl
Gerben42: 3 or 4
Gerben42: !CJ then !S 
mmmakela: y optimal
kaapo: I suppose it's normal for East to open 1!C (unless you play 5-card minors, that is) and for South to overcall 1NT
Gerben42: then i would bid stayman as N
kaapo: And perhaps pass 2!D
mmmakela: why not HJ
Gerben42: probably not, partner has shown some !C length too
mmmakela: ok this way too if spades now
mmmakela: wd
mmmakela: now action
Gerben42: West will like that response and might bid 4!H now
mmmakela: or some foolishly 6 S
Gerben42: fishing for a !D cuebid?
mmmakela: this sounds too much like !C 1-suiter to me
Gerben42: but partner doesnt understand
Gerben42: he had an idea but didnt have partner in the picture
kaapo: I don't see why 4!C wouldn't be natural, so quite dangerous to bid that
mmmakela: y
mmmakela: so only good spade raise is 4 H
Gerben42: given that partner can still have 0, 4!H must show a monster
mmmakela: after 1 !S has enough to 4 H imo
Gerben42: yes agree
kaapo: Certainly
mmmakela: now luckily ? landed on their feet
Gerben42: yes guess so
kaapo: Elsinen - Elsinen on top after round 11: http://bridgefinland.com/sm/pari09/results.php
mmmakela: maybe 4 !C was either clubs forcing or strong spade raise, then good seq
mmmakela: as E's 5 C indicated
Gerben42: is it really likely they have actually had an agreement there?
mmmakela: no lol just pondering
Gerben42: not sure if I would have led !C - seems they can wait
mmmakela: and now 7 angry messages from Hämeenlinna....
kaapo: That's how I think too, Gerben
mmmakela: "sure they know whwt they are doing"....
kaapo: But I'm not sure which of the other suits I'd lead :)
mmmakela: dias seems the "normal" lead in pairs
kaapo: Next round Elsinens vs Kari Koivula - Timo Ollila
kaapo: So a very short break now
kaapo: I have a question for you to ponder. Cid Holm is a late Finnish bridge player. Once playing abroad he had trouble with the door. It needed to be pulled but he pushed (or the other ...
kaapo: way up) and he couldn't open it
kaapo: When asked "Why didn't you open?", what was his response?
Gerben42: I only had 5 points?
kaapo: Quite close
mmmakela: You can all reconstruct the bidding in # 35 and go over it with your regular partner
mmmakela: should
kaapo: "I didn't have an opening hand"
mmmakela: 35
Gerben42: :)
kaapo: Kari Koivula (West) against Timo Ollila (East) vs the leaders Antti Elsinen (N) - Tiina Elsinen (S)
mmmakela: still waiting time trivia questions wanted
kaapo: Elsinens are a married couple. Tiina played in the silver-winning ladies team in the 2009 Norcis held in Turku this summer
kaapo: *Nordics
mmmakela: Mara any new ones? or Osku if in audience with a secret nick?
kaapo: Blindish secretly watching us? :)
mmmakela: 3?
mmmakela: 2 is lame imo
Gerben42: 2 is fine for me
Gerben42: 1 even better
mmmakela: well some(most) call me a crazy pairs bidder
kaapo: 1, 2 or 3 all are options. Finding a lead was easier
mmmakela: NEVER 1 or 2, pass or 3
Gerben42: we agree to disagree
kaapo: If you opened the East hand 1!D, would you bid 3!C over the double?
Gerben42: no
kaapo: A kibitzer tells me that exactly is the point in opening 1!D with 4-4 minors
mmmakela: disagree, never know the lengths
Gerben42: disagree with what?
Gerben42: lets agree with the lead :)
mmmakela: opening 44 with dias except in 3rd if lead purposes
mmmakela: mins
Gerben42: a bit different if !C can be 2
mmmakela: if it sys opening surely but in nat bidding
mmmakela: so the "better minor" consept is not for me
Gerben42: also not for me since I dislike promising 3 cards for 1!C :)
kaapo: Shouldn't Tiina discard a heart on !CK?
Gerben42: likely 3NT contract here
mmmakela: a site u all shd visit: http://www.bridgeguys.com/conventions.html
Gerben42: Koivula makes an unusual Dbl here
Gerben42: there is no rule saying with 13 HCP must bid
mmmakela: oldfashioned 13+
Gerben42: south 2NT?
kaapo: Or perhaps it only guarantees 4!S?
kaapo: We saw a similar double earlier today from another Finnish old school player
Gerben42: North thinking Tina shows 6-4 perhaps, otherwise what is the point of 2!S
Gerben42: either way NS in trouble
mmmakela: the most important developement in bidding after 50's is that t/o dbl promises tolerance to all 3 unbid suits or 17+ points PERIOD
kaapo: Finally!
Gerben42: I agree with that :)
kaapo: We found something we all agree about: the meaning of t/o X :)
mmmakela: still see people dbling 1 NT(15-17) with 13 flat; I have an opening hand
mmmakela: not joking
Gerben42: ditto with my weak NT
Gerben42: Dbl = I have another weak NT?
mmmakela: lol
mmmakela: in upper limits one shd
mmmakela: so back to business
mmmakela: was S worth 2 !S assumed sane W?
Gerben42: prefer 2NT 
mmmakela: me too
Gerben42: 2!D on a crazy day :)
mmmakela: why bid spades if partner is not known freq with 1 nt with 4c S
kaapo: Last board of the round. Results after round 12 here http://bridgefinland.com/sm/pari09/results.php
kaapo: So Elsinen - Elsinen vs Paavo Leskelä - Jarmo Kurko
kaapo: Koistinen - Nyberg just 2 points behind Elsinens
mmmakela: so for the Finnish viewers name the 5 adjectives that end with a letter e(finnish ) only priv answers if all 5 found
Gerben42: the 5?
Gerben42: there are no more?
mmmakela: nope
Gerben42: cant you invent a 6th one related to bridge?
kaapo: We don't like adjectives, we're dull
mmmakela: sure I got several priv ones
Gerben42: i thought maybe you dont like E
kaapo: By the way, have you ever thought of changing your name to Garbon Dirkson, G? ;)
kaapo: Would have a nice rhyme, don't you think :)
kaapo: So roud 13 with North Paavo Leskelä, South Jarmo Kurko vs Elsinen's EW
Gerben42: 2!H is a convention with an E in the name
Gerben42: eek
vugraphzzv: round 14
kaapo: Ok, R14 it is
Gerben42: 8 ever 9 ever 10 never 11... ?
kaapo: 2!H = erheellinen
Gerben42: place your bets :)
Gerben42: 1-1 is 52% odds
Gerben42: erheelinen = flannery?!
Gerben42: hmm
kaapo: "erheellinen" = an adjective :)
Gerben42: but doesnt end in E
Gerben42: that wont give NS many matchpoints
mmmakela: needs swing I suppose
Gerben42: got one
mmmakela: y
kaapo: The players will have a coffee break after this round
Gerben42: thats a legal strategy if you are behind, then doesnt matter if you have 50% or 53% if you need 60
mmmakela: playing ag the field at this point seems desperate
mmmakela: another neg free bid
mmmakela: missing possible 6 dias
Gerben42: define "possible"
kaapo: Maybe he'll go for a drop in !Ds now
Gerben42: very optimistic 6!D :)
mmmakela: not in this deal but in general
kaapo: Of course he could play on !Cs and won't need worry about diamonds
kaapo: Well, could have
mmmakela: on*
Gerben42: partner can still bid 4!FD :)
Gerben42: 4!D
mmmakela: sure but will bid 3 nt on many occasions when 6 dias right
kaapo: 3!SX by North here perhaps?
kaapo: Oh, South found an opening
mmmakela: almost a max in modern bidding
cenglund: Aktivoisitko minun raamaläsnäoloni?
Gerben42: :)
mmmakela: most finnish plrs promise 5+ with 1 !S F1
cenglund: Ok
Gerben42: not strong enough for a fitjump I think
Gerben42: tricky problem in East how to support
mmmakela: I personally hate if can be only 4c
Gerben42: I would go 2!H then 3!H probably
mmmakela: 4!H is a way to show supp
Gerben42: Kari almost right, 4!Sx
mmmakela: south's max opening backfiring here?
kaapo: What's with the tank?
Gerben42: 4!C undoubled
kaapo: Didn't 1!S promise 5 after all?
kaapo: Results after round 13 are up http://bridgefinland.com/sm/pari09/results.php
Gerben42: still wont be pretty if the set up the !D ruffs soon
kaapo: And the favourites have reclaimed the lead
kaapo: So we'll continue with Kauko and Clas when we come back at 18:00 local time
Gerben42: Koistinen - Nyberg are the favorites or just your favorites? :)
kaapo: In 24 minutes
kaapo: They are the title holders
cenglund: Ei näytä futaavan
Gerben42: fair enough :)
kaapo: And have numerous championshis
kaapo: *won
Gerben42: that I know - but before we had the MP leader 
mmmakela: the "expert" field in Finland is so narrow that Magic Diamond creates a lot of probs for opponents even on this level, not to downgrade Koist-Nyberg bridge skills: so they were the ...
mmmakela: favs
kaapo: Yes that's right, but that was a single player, and that title might be more about the activity than being the greatest player
Gerben42: who is the Finnish national team at the moment
Gerben42: +in
kaapo: Koistinen - Nyberg, Osmo Kiema - Jouni Juuri-Oja and Mika Salomaa - Pekka Viitasalo played in the Nordics
kaapo: Thanks all, we'll be back at 18:00
Gerben42: bye :)
vugraphzzv: We'll have a short break and return around18:00 local time